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Tue, 06/10/2008 - 15:34
Anyone heard of this or vested in this product?
I was offered this product.
It's an ILP product that provides 100% investment and if you want, can choose to add insurance to it. The funds offered are all Private Banking funds, namely by Merrill Lynch, BlackRock, etc.
Is it good? Although I know that the charges are kinda high for this product. However, if the returns are higher than those conventional funds, then more or less, it should be able to offset the high charges?
If I recalled correctly, PIAS came to our co. to give a seminar talk and intro this plan to us.
But I think the amt to be invested is pretty high, isn't it?
And everything the guy talked about, sounded too good to be true.
I have not gone thru the brochure too thoroughly though.
If I recalled correctly, PIAS came to our co. to give a seminar talk and intro this plan to us.
But I think the amt to be invested is pretty high, isn't it?
And everything the guy talked about, sounded too good to be true.
I have not gone thru the brochure too thoroughly though.
yes, i was approached by PIAS too.
Not only is the monthly investment amount high, but the charges are very high too!!
I have decided not to invest in them...too high for me...can't afford it...haha
Ahhhh People...remember the fine print hor...Read carefully.
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Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
Ahhhh People...remember the fine print hor...Read carefully.
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Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
i actually signed on the papers...but i told the agent that i would like to read the prospectus and documents first...since she mentioned there's a 30 day free-look period.
In the end, i decided not to invest in it.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1899841
There's some discussion on this product in hardwarezone forum too.
There's some discussion on this product in hardwarezone forum too.
Thanks, am reading it nw.
Btw, did u sign up for their comprehensive financial planning?
There's some discussion on this product in hardwarezone forum too.
Thanks, am reading it nw.
Btw, did u sign up for their comprehensive financial planning?
the advisor did a financial planning for me....and as expected, i was recommended this zurich investment plan.
Initially when approached by the advisor, she said that she only offers pte banking funds and since it is hardly available to individuals like us, so i think, why not just go ahead and listen to what it is all about?
You can always sign up for an online stock market trading broker and there you can supervise all his activity from your very own computer. But of course this is only one way to do it or you could also register for a company and invest yourself if you think you can handle the market.
Hi Qwerty123,
Any comments / views on the plan?
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Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
Hi Qwerty123,
Any comments / views on the plan?
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Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
if based on what the adviser showed me is accurate, then the investment returns are quite good...very high if compared to those normal funds available at fsm...
however, do note that there are too many charges and costs...kinda difficult to understand them...that's why i never invest in it...too high charges and difficult to understand charges..
furthermore, it's actually an ILP product and they market it to be an investment product...it was kinda confusing for me in the beginning...
that's my own personal views about this product...
With the high cost and charges, the actual return might not be that high as stated after deducting those charges. Rather risky especially since its a ILP.
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Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
With the high cost and charges, the actual return might not be that high as stated after deducting those charges. Rather risky especially since its a ILP.
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Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
precisely..
the cost struture is very difficult to understand as there are many charges involved. Therefore, I am keeping away from it..
another thing which i forgot to add on...
There's a bonus given to you based on your investment sum. If you invest S$1200 a month, you qualify under the "Bronze" category, S$2000 for "Silver" and S$3200 for "Gold".
However, i am not sure how much is the bonus paid out, but it will be in instalments spread out in a year.
This is copied out directly from the product description of this policy.
Example:
If you set up a policy with a monthly premium of USD$800 for a 20 year term, a bonus of 10% of the yearly premium will be added in the first year. (0.5% x 20 years = 10%).
A total bonus of USD$960 (USD$80 per month) will be added in year 1 (110% allocation). From the second year onwards the allocation rate returns to 100%.
If increments are added to the policy and the new total premium is within a new bonus band then that new bonus level will apply to the increment based on the remaining term of the policy.
Ah icic, so they reward you with more perks when you invest more...its the same everywhere ;)
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Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
wonder what happened to all these private banking funds that invest in those major banks in america?
will the funds collapse?
hi guys,
i bought a zurich vista investment plan in july, paying about 1.2k per month (10 years plan) in order to qualify for the minimum bonus level. since then, the value of the plan has dropped more than 30%.
i must admit that when i bought this plan, the market had not crashed and the returns seems v good even there's quite a few charges.
Would like to ask u guys some ignorant questions... please roll ur eyes but still answer me yeah...
- Would Zurich be in any danger of closing down one day? My main fear is that my 240k (accummulated over 10yrs) will have been gone if it close down.
- If the distributor ceased operation one day, is there any way i can get my $$$ back? by contacting Zurich directly?
- Should i just abandon this plan and cut losses?
I know these questions are silly and more research shld hv been done before accepting this plan. But what's done been done, so i truly hope that you guys can offer some advice
lost one
Hi,
I am writing to you guys because I have just given up on my Zurich Vista investment plan which lasted for 2 years. Frankly, the investment returns are very poor (like you I have lost over 30% of capital, 47,000 to 30,000, the EURO adventurous fund performed very poorly) and the surrender penalty is very heavy. But what I really dislike about this plan is the lack of transparency and inflexibility, and particularly the lack of control of your funds. There are these expensive management fees and numerous charges. It is an expensive plan (i.e. at least over 1.2K per month, I was paying 2.5k per month).
Don't know Zurich will fall (nowadays, nothing is certain), but I think it would be better if you invest in an exchanged traded or index funds for long term investment. ETFs work like a stock and can be traded with minimal management fees unlike unit trusts or managed funds are in Zurich. You can dollar average your payment (when the stock price is low). The advantage is that you can buy and sell the fund (depending on the market) as YOU ARE in control. Right now equities are very low particularly for some blue chips shares. Do some research, be your own fund manager.
Just cut your losses and get rid of the plan. Remember you have to pay 10 years of this plan (otherwise you may incur penalty etc)! Your returns may be very unpredictable. 10 years of bondage to a fund which may not give the most optimal returns is a fairly risky options.
Sorry for my grammar. I have written this reply in a hurry.
Hi, first of all, welcome to this forum.
I have to declare that i am not a financial advisor, neither am i a qualified personnel in the financial world.
To answer your question, i believe no one can give you a guarantee that the company would be there forever. I believe you have read the news about the crisis in the america, even the big banks and financial institutions can fall.. what is zurich compared to them?
I am not very sure about the second question that you have. Probably you can check it out with your advisor regarding this? Did you purchase it directly through Zurich or through an independent advisory company? That time i was approached by this independent advisory company (PIAS).
Once again, these are my own personal opinions and they might or might not be true.
Regards.
thanks for ur reply...
yah... but in terms of financial strength or credibility, zurich is still functioning well right?
i purchased it thru IPP, so if ipp ceased operation one day (touch wood), will i be able to approach zurich directly?
hi viclee,
thank you for sharing your experience. will have to think seriously about cutting my losses!
lostone
??
For a more lively discussion on this kind of investment plan please refer to the webpage below. This discusses the issues faced by people both for and against the Zurich investment plan. Some of the inner workings (i.e. numerous hidden charges) of such investment plans are nicely described. So be very aware of this.
http://jobs.japantoday.com/bb/showthread.php?t=9683&page=2
base on my experience, one of the ways to tell if a product is good or bad is from the total distribution costs, which largely go to pay agent's commission. a good poduct usually comes with very low commission, bad-value-for-money products usually pay the agents very very well. therefore, before you sign on the dotted line, ask the agent or advisor how much he/she will get from the recommended product. how does it compare with similar plans in the market in terms of distribution costs? if it pays very high commission, and the fee structures & product features are difficult to understand, better avoid at all costs.
let me work on some numbers, and i will show you how much this vista plan pays in terms of commissions then you will know whether it's good value or a sucker.. :)
Thanks June very much for contributing to this forum. I am glad you referred me to that blog spot. I did not mention that I had a severe penalty for severing the plan after 24 months. Lost over $30,000 from an investment of close to $50000! I gave up on the plan principally because of the rigidity i.e. you must pay continuously for over 20 years otherwise you will lose the bonus or incur hefty penalty. For a plan that costs over $2000 per month, this is extremely expensive. I am also frustrated over the lack of transparency, the financial product is very complex with many inherent fees and charges. I am certainly not aware of the generous commissions that my financial adviser was getting at the time this plan was introduced to me, certainly no disclosure of any sort. Also, like any snake oil salesman, the product was sold to me as an exclusive financial investment instrument with extremely good returns (including the so-called bonus). The issue of the hefty fines and penalties was not highlighted, even if they may be in the fine print somewhere.
At the end of the day it is my fault for not carefully scrutinising these policies and to be taken in by financial advisers that I once trusted. But I fully agree that people should be educated and warned about financial instruments that have many conditions and contractual rules that bind and severely disadvantage a client. BTW, when I cancelled my policy, I was told that the only time I can get the money before the matuity date, without any penalty was when I die. Even critical illness was not accepted! Unfortunately, these penalties, commissions and heft charges, are something that is difficult to glean because they are hidden, obscured by fine print and perhaps, simply not fully understood or appreciated by non financial people like me! I am tertiary educated person and I simply don't have the time and resources to go through these complicated rules!
I hope more people should be aware of this and to be very careful of expensive and complex financial investment plans. Don't be fooled by the sweet promises of unscrupulous advisers!
hi viclee, you may want to visit http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/. there're discussions about this V plan. please contribute your part by sharing your story. many people suffered losses but kept it to themselves. they are helping those unscrupulous 'advisors' to continue to con more people. you do not have to be a victim of misselling or misrepesentation. please gather more people, and write to fidrec or mas. i learned about their sales pitches from a friend, clearly it's a misselling and misrepresentation under the FA Act. it's not suitable for most people. did the advisor disclose to you in writing how much they earn from you? did they tell you that the bonus allocation is only on paper and that you need to 'finish' the plan to 'enjoy' it? what's the big deal about 62.5% bonus allocation of first year premium if it's to be amortised over the term i.e 25 or longer. i think you have a case against the FAR who sold you this product on the ground of 'suitability' and 'non-disclosure of material info'. given the complexity of the plan and the charges, even the so-called prefessionals do not understand it fully. sound familiar? CDOs? SIVs?
did your advisor manage to convince you that this is not an insurance plan but rather an regular investment plan as you do not need to opt for any cover? did he mention that through monthly investment you will get the benefit of dollar-cost-averaging, work best in this volatile investment? did he also tell you that the 'bonus' is guaranteed, and that you can take premium holiday after the initial 18 months or so? sound very convincing isn't it?
but if this is an investment plan, why it takes only 12 years or longer for it to just break even, based on investment return of 5%? did he show and explain to you the effect of deduction? it can amount to hundreds of thousand or million for $3,200 / month for 25 years? i will confirm the number when i have the BI.
the issue here is that there's a much cheaper and flexible way of investing your money on a monthly basis. did your advisor mention about this alternative to you? under FA Act, he's responsible to ensure that your interest is best served. did he place your interest first before his own interest by recommending you an insurance plan but misled you into believeing that it's an investment plan?
ask yourself if you will be happy to just let go and suffer the losses yourself (your hard-earned money), and let the advisor scot-free, laughing all the way to the bank, and spending your money on a nice car or holiday? i will be very 'bosong' if the losses were the result of a con job, and not my genuine mistake. you may want to consult mr tan kin lian, ask him to gather more info and people who suffer the same like you, and then just like what he has been championing, take it to the authority. i believe he can help. i would say you have a case, and the chances of a proper restitution is high.
the problem with the industry, here and abroad alike, is that far too many victims keep their losses to themselves. people dare not speak out for fear that the so-called big boys (financial institutions) will sue them. with the lehman saga, now is never a better time for all victims of misselling and misrepresentation of financial products to join forces, and collectively, you will be able to take on those suckers. do not be afraid, you are also helping to stop those unscrupulous agents and advisors from destroying more families. hope to see a healthier system in singapore. for that i thank you..
Thank you June for sharing your knowledge and experience with everyone!
Hi June & others, I have been terribly misold on the Vista plan. It's a travesty these guys can get away with this kind of stuff. Only 18 months into the plan did I come to realise the massive penalties one will incur for early withdrawal (around 82 per cent of contributions in my case), not to mention the the ridiculous fees. I am compiling my case for Mr. Tan and will visit FIDReC and most likely MAS later this week. I am going to fight for my money in its entirety and I encourage others to do so too -- DO NOT SUFFER IN SILENCE. Any queries, questions, advice can be directed to : ukxgerard@gmail.com I will do my best to help and advice from my own experiences, however, I am early into the fight. KUDOS to Mr. Tan for standing up to the consumer too. Gerard
Ok, a very interesting read concerning your thoughts towards the Zurich Vista Plan. Please let me reassure you on the following points.
1. The Vista is an extremely cost efficient vehicle. If you have not been educated on how the charging structure works then you may believe it to be expensive. I have found that a lot of advisors out there do not understand it themselves, therefore they cannot explain the structure correctly. Once the charges have been explained you will agree that it is cost effective ! It is significantly cheaper than trying to do something on your own. Also be careful that some banks may charge additional fee's compared to independant advisors.
2. Penalties to cancel - The plan is intended to provide for your future. There are certain rules you must follow however there is no need to incur a penalty at all with his plan. Yes there is an 18m initial period that you must cover, but again if somebody that is knowledgable has explained how this works and how you can use this and not incur penalties then you would understand it better.
3. Flexibility - This plan affords a massive amount of flexibility. Please show me another plan that matches it !!!
4. Listening to the advice - there are some companies out there who only recommend the Zurich product, there are a few who represent all the regulated companies/products available. If you feel that you are being pushed to "buy" this product ask them to show you an alternative. There are always other options. In their defence the Zurich plan is pretty much one of the best out there............just not the only one !
4. Poor return on investment - Well this plan does rely on the stock markets to make you money, as do all investments. If the stock market crashes then your savings appear diminished, but this is only a paper loss. It can be great news when the stock market comes down in value. Once the market has recovered, which may take months/few years then your savings will also recover and you would have benefited from buying into the markets at extremely low prices. Ask yourself one question ----- would you rather buy something when it is cheap or when the price goes up ?
Please note, If you feel that your advisor isnt explaining things correctly then dont sign any paperwork until you are happy !
I have been in this industry for over 15 years and there is nothing that annoys me more than when people start criticising a particular product. I wouldnt mind if it was a poor product but when it is either a lack of understanding, or even worse a lack of proper advice being given then I feel it is unjustified. It is also unwise to listen to comments posted on web sites, everybody has a different experience when saving their money, Just because they arent happy doesnt mean you wont be ! MAYBE IT IS A POOR CHOICE OF ADISOR, OR MAYBE THE DIDNT UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY WERE DOING (OR WHY THEY WERE DOING IT) !
I hope my little rant/explanation helps you all !!
Financial Advisor
This Zurich sales pitch above is a cut and paste on every site. Most of the other posts on the money forums are saying STAY CLEAR OF ZURICH especially Vista. Who are you going to listen to...investors who continue to lose big money or "financial advisor" who is afraid of losing the big commissions Zurich pays to suck people in. If you are being recommended this product...run from your advisor. I wish a law firm would start a class action lawsuit.
Financial Alliance Pte Ltd
Always not the most easy decision to cancel after taking up a plan.. hence the importance of understanding prior to any commitment.
I ran a post on this @ http://www.eemintheifa.com/2009/09/offshore-ilps-what-you-need-to-know.h...
Typically, the net expense ratio for these contractual regular savings plans is on the high side (vis-a-vis DIY online distributors). One has to weigh the pros of benefiting from exposure to these funds not commonly found on the mass retail market in Singapore. Is the trade-off worth it?
visit my blog @ www.eemintheifa.com